As everyone is stating, Swain is seen as the big antagonist... but one problem with that, is that our Birdmin Swain has not been posting since February, yet there's been no opportunity for anyone to take over from what it's seemed. With Swain's absence, activity in Noxus has ground to a halt. Yet, despite over 3 months of inactivity, Swain as a champion has never been available for anyone to pick up. I don't feel like it's prudent for a champion to be locked indefinitely, just because an admin was the one playing it :/
The plot should be a bit more visible indeed, as well as needing more antagonists.
I agree here. We need a Swain, without one, Noxus can't really do anything at all and even some champions like LeBlanc and possibly Darius are limited without the big ol bird
Last Edit: Jun 3, 2014 9:12:46 GMT -5 by The Judicator
Post by James Marker on Jun 3, 2014 9:59:54 GMT -5
I'm glad we finally opened up to suggestions - and I apologize to Rurin for how rude I was when I was first notified about this thread, I was tired and stressed and distracted.
Anyhow...
1) Applications (Champion) Champions are obviously an integral part of the community. However, as has been stated, the application process is a bit intense, and if we happen to send in applications when the admins are having a bad day, things have a chance to be a tad bit messy.
By no means does this mean that we shouldn't have to apply for a champion. However, a multi-page essay may be a bit overkill. It would be a good idea to tone down the length and difficulty of the application itself.
Also, giving people the option to modify/partially disregard the character's RPing past (to a point deemed acceptable by the admins) is a great idea because it gives new RPers the opportunity to build up champions in their own unique way.
A small idea I had to influence champion active-ness was the idea to have applying champions 'bid' for how active they can be. It shouldn't happen during the applying process (it may sway the opinion from a good application with a long bid towards a okay application with a short bid) but after the champion is accepted. How it would work is they would be asked to estimate how often they could post quality, canon posts, and then giving them a bit of extra time on top of that leads to the amount of time they have between posts to be considered active.
(Example: An applicant just won the position of a new champion. The applicant requests five days for each good post. The admins give them seven days to post, fourteen days to lose champion status unless prior notified of extended absence to a reasonable time. Another applicant wins another champion, requests fourteen days for each good post. Admins give them sixteen days to post and eighteen days to be considered inactive. I understand there are problems this system could cause, but it would make taking a champion on less high-pressure without dissuading dedicated RPers.)
2) Applications (Original Characters) Even though Champions drive the story, OCs make up the bulk of the forum due to their less-limited (at least in number) nature and...well, people like having things they consider their own.
The OC application process is actually on what I think is a good road to success. Having a team of reviewers look over incoming OCs and telling the person who created them how to properly balance them before adding them to the 'accepted' compendium.
Our main problem here lies in two major factors. The first is that different reviewers have different standards for what is acceptable, and the second is that not all reviewers are here all the time, or even here regularly, which can lead to some in-progress OCs to be a bit stagnant.
What I suggest would be subdividing the OC creation boards into different groups of OCs. Not necessarily 'good/evil' or one for each city state, but perhaps different classes or alignments. It would take a bit of extra space on the forum, but giving each distinct group an application board and an accepted board would make it easier for OC mods to check on incoming OCs and review them quicker.
Also, giving each board to a different mod would put each mod in an element that they're comfortable with. Let's say there was a 'civillian' board; since civillians generally don't have too much in the term of magical ability or high-tech weaponry, the focus would be on background, appearance, and where they fit in the storyline. So, a mod who specializes in lore adjustments would fit well there. If there was a more warrior-type OC, then perhaps a mod who's good with weapons and how to use them would be in high demand, while story wouldn't necessarily be in high demand.
It may also be a good idea to have someone check in on the mods from time to time to make sure they have enough time to review their respective board and notifying pending OCs when the mod needs time off.
I realize this may not fix the flow issues, but besides urging the mods to be less strict in their appraisal there isn't much we can do about that without further analysis into what's causing the blockage.
Sidenote: It may be a good idea, in order to give OCs more opportunity to connect with other people, to have OCs find two active OCs that they can interact with and possibly one champion, giving the forum more interconnectivity and not leaving new OCs stranded. I've seen too many OCs get accepted and then left to rot because they couldn't find anyone else who they fit with. (At least one example is my OC, Lavin.)
-----------------------------------
That's all I have to add for now. When I form an opinion on the other suggestions Ashe put out, I'll post those.
I hope that my personal thoughts on the matter were of some value.
I will meet one someday...and that day will either be the best or worst day of my life.
Post by The Magus Ascendant on Jun 3, 2014 11:30:09 GMT -5
I wrote all this out once already, but I lost it due to Chrome crapping out on me, so I apologize in advance for this abbreviated rendition.
tl;dr- Make application answers short-answer with 1 essay. Allow for fantasy in OC applications. Take control of your beef with the antagonists. (Xerath is probably ebil)
I think that the current form of applications allows for RPers to be perfectly aware of who it is they're supposed to portray, however it is quite a burden on the RPer to write up so many paragraphs before even starting on their actual RP. Perhaps this could be fixed by not requiring entire paragraphs for basic questions, but just a simple one-sentence answer, and then only having one essay to prove competence in writing as well as portrayal of the champion.
Also, I think the critiquing of OCs is extremely strict. I read through a lot of the OCs and their reviews when I can, and it always seems like we try to make these fantasy characters so realistic that they are not very fun for the RPer. For instance, I understand we have posts about weapons/armor and their uses, but Katarina wears hardly anything in combat and Riven carries a sword that should weigh the same as her own weight twice over and we don't question these things, but when someone wants to be a small person that wears full plate armor (like Poppy), we seem to tear apart their application right there. (Just to clarify- this is how I -feel- about the application process. I don't mean to point anyone out or blame anyone.) I just think we can be gentler with our OC applicant reviews and not quite as formal. "Hey, I noticed you said you're 12 years old and you are a student of runic magic. How did your character gain so much understanding at such a young age?" Instead of "Runic mastery takes a lifetime of hard work. There's no way you could've had a character that learned how to use a rune by age 12."
As far as spicing up the RP... your largest antagonists have either disappeared or are showing no real activity that anyone can even suspect, but even so, many champions have their suspicions, but again cannot act on them because inactive parties are involved. On the flip side of the coin, I think those RPers who ARE present should be looking at those who they believe to be 'up to no good' and planning recon/surveillance missions to find out what is -REALLY- going on. If the antagonist is inactive, bring it to an admin's attention when you require them to RP and I'm sure they'll put it up for application submittal, or even allow a temporary take-over of the champion to push along the RP. (As a side note, now that this issue's been let out of the bag, I can turn Xerath into a villain to push along some story. Muhaha! However, I'm going to need some help, looking to you, The Machine Herald. You ready for that Glorious Revolution?)
I don't mean to step on anyone's toes, I just figured I'd throw in my 2 cents since I've just recently joined and might be able to offer a fresh perception on it.
Post by The Radiant Dawn on Jun 3, 2014 15:49:56 GMT -5
I think that a temporary relaxing of champion applications would be a good idea to rekindle interest. Perhaps taking down the difficulty of the application a few notches permanently would not be a bad idea, but I strongly recommend that all incoming applicants are tested by at least some means.
I strongly agree with the second suggestion. I was a bit distressed at not being able to start anew with my current champion, and I feel as if there are many plotlines lying stagnant that nobody has had the desire to continue that may be brought back to light at any given moment, and that a current champion holder who was previously not aware of what his or her predecessor did could suffer from it.
The addition of antagonists could definitely speed a few things up around the site. Having someone to fight, or at least oppose you would make things more interesting. I also suggest that more important NPCs be added, ones with significance that can have a noticeable impact, such as council members in city states, important military figures, the like.
I think that plots that continue along with good pace and also keep many people involved are what are truly required. Every time I considered quitting was because I had nothing to do, partially due to the area that my character is from being so isolated and, I feel, left out from a lot of plots and development. More universal plots or just plotlines that incorporate characters from areas that generally do not see much attention would be of use, I think, getting people to interact with characters from regions different from their own, which should always prove to be interesting.
Allow people to go through with their own plots and ideas. Do everything to avoid Railroading, and give people options and choices. Suggesting different routes to proposed champions paths is okay, but this should be a world driven by the characters and their interactions, not merely the machinations of one or two people. The plot before felt too much like "Swain becomes a god, and some other stuff happened." People felt left out, like their plots and ideas didn't really matter, and the bad guys felt unstoppable. That is not a fun experience for people who wish to be creative, especially when they are told "No, you can't be creative in this way, you must only be creative in this way." This can be so much more than it is currently, but in its current form, it will continue to stagnate, and die slowly.
Post by The Cryophoenix on Jun 3, 2014 23:19:09 GMT -5
Thought I might take a moment to share with you guys a little bit of the analysis that I've been putting into the situation. I'll be honest in saying that this has had me knocked down for quite a while, and I'm rather unsure as to how best to proceed.
Plot Ideas: Many of the recommendations here are things I’ve been trying to do for over a year. The organizational basis of my application to become social admin for this site back in January 2013 was focused on decentralization of the plot to allow full scale development of characters throughout the world. As a result, I’ve spent countless hours working on projects, developing lore, reading posts from every section of the forum, and trying to integrate all of the lines that I see starting into the overarching story. In almost every single case, these attempts have stalled almost as soon as they leave my hands. What I don’t understand is why.
Why can we have a Noxian general killed without anyone batting an eye, as Noxus is clearly a center of power that everyone is worried about? Why do artifacts and planned explorations simply disappear? Why aren’t the Void and the Shadow Islands antagonists in the plot when they’ve directly attacked entire city states, with high degrees of success? On a personal note, why does Nasus quit every third post I get him started with? Why haven’t any other City States had any political reaction at all to any of these events? Why has no champion even considered trying to find out what’s actually happening in the Institute, the center of the continent with a magical arsenal more powerful than anything on the world? Where are the quests to understand the increasing chaos in the world: unabated rune magic in the swamps, creeping void corruption in the mountains, undead in Urtistan, armies marching from Icathia, and glade magic in Bandle?
We’ve tried all the experiments: when everyone knows what’s going to happen, they lose motivation and stop posting (Demacia/Shadow isles Peace Talks). When a single leader takes command of a plot, all responsibility with regard toward pushing it onward falls on them, leading to stagnation when they run out of steam (Dungeon Crawls). When large scale events become too big, people stop caring and get bored, then drop out either from a single thread, or the forum as a whole, forcing an admin to take on more to finish their role (Invasions). When someone else gives you ideas to get started, they don’t feel like your own story, and you lose motivation (Failed starters). The most successful roleplaying we’ve seen from people comes from intrinsically motivated individuals who want to share their story, often incorporating the suspense of others not knowing to strengthen their own motivation to write. If you guys can think of other ways to encourage this, please let me know.
As far as “plot stagnation” goes, I’m simply at a loss for what to say. The infinity of possibilities at this juncture is almost crippling in itself, and many of our members have advantage of it. Does anyone find it strange that the Institute is still trying to broker deals with the Undead? That Talon has allied himself with the Grey Warlock? That Malzahar is seeking respite in Kumungu? That Karthus stands against the Ruined King? That Skarner cannot connect to the earth in his own lands? That Riven is being shown time and time again that she cannot take on the world alone? That Ashe’s injuries have yet to heal, Anivia has been crippled, and Sejuani is cut off from her clans by a pack of trolls? That the Pirates of Blue Flame Island stand united against Noxian collaboration? These were the things that I loved to see coming from you guys, and really drove my enjoyment of this website. Put it together and realize that our story is expansive and multifaceted.
And yet, despite the fact that I continually pull together and incorporate all of this information into the growing site-wide plot, people somehow believe their stories are meaningless in the face the esoteric “True Plot.” Perhaps I haven’t made it clear enough, but there is no such thing. We’re crafting a reactive story based on your actions. Those I mentioned above have stagnated because there is no reciprocation. Nobody spends the effort to learn what they’re doing: to join their quests, flesh out their enemies, or explore their worlds. The only roleplayers that lack things to do are those waiting for a response to the things they have started. Simply put, anyone who doesn’t know what’s going on in the story around them, and is ‘waiting for something to happen’ is holding back the story. In that same vein, the longer someone takes to respond to a post, the more motivation falls away, and once the momentum is gone, it’s extraordinarily difficult to start posting again. I'm not advocating that we lose track of quality work to get things moving, as haphazard plot lines make my job vastly more difficult and often trap characters in difficult situations, however, there's no need to be afraid of advertising the ideas that you have so that we can build something spectacular from it.
Swain, “The Antagonist” everyone is so terribly afraid of, spent 6 months bedridden while three people even tried to address him, only to receive everyone’s scorn and fear for standing back up with the aid of an insane chemist and the blood of the voidborne. Let’s be honest here: Swain’s writing did exactly what anyone could ever aspire to. It excited those who were on Swain’s side, and scared those who oppose him. Rather than reveling in the quintessence of a talented writer’s capabilities, the elicitation of an emotional response from every reader, we pushed her away with ooc fear and anger that we might be unimportant. Yes, Swain is available for claiming, and has been for some time. No, I don’t believe it will make a single difference to the current complacency of the forum if someone claims him. We will not find another roleplayer who’s going to pick up Noxus and carry it on his back. Does it make sense that every event that happens in Noxus needs the Grand General’s explicit orders to proceed? Has anyone tried to create an event that needed a response regardless (no Talon, not you)? It’s easy to say that we need more plot direction, but the fact of the matter is that the ideas are largely already out there and being ignored.
Champion Applications: With regard to champion applications, our intention was that the process would give our champion roleplayers time to think about what story they actually want to tell before being hit by the sudden and inevitable “I got it, now what?” The reality of the situation is that this has seen relatively little success. People seem to agonize over the writing prompts, but give little to no thought about the most important sections of the application, leaving them off just as stranded as they started. Ashe and I will be taking your thoughts into account as we look over the process. If you are concerned about the subjectivity of the application process, please feel free to contact me directly. I bite, but it’s only because I don’t have hands.
Starting completely new with a champion I disagree with. If we want our forum to have any coherence of story, there are some things that you just can’t overwrite. That said, I’ve always been flexible with reinterpretations of the written word. There’s never been a real tennent saying that you must adhere to every action ever taken by your previous roleplayer, but at the same time, we can’t really have Cho’Gath saying “Oh, I’m on the good side, I never attacked anyone.” Along these lines, I think there’s something to be said about character breaking. As a general rule, you’re free to interpret your character as you see fit, however, don’t be afraid to ask for help if you find yourself in a tight position. As a rule, we care about all the characters, not just our own.
All that said, if the above discussion didn’t make it clear, there is little I can do to help roleplayers who are unmotivated to hit the road on their own. To be perfectly honest with you all, I'm uninterested in moderating a fragmented world that doesn't advocate high quality work. I do not rule out the possibility that roleplayers are simply uninterested in the level of effort that I loved about this forum's early days. If our intention is to loosen our standards and roleplay without world in mind, I can't justify expending the time and effort to stay on top of it. Because this forum represents a relatively important resume piece for its founders, I would feel more comfortable coordinating a change of venue over a total rework of this forum's content.
Original Characters: As far as OCs are concerned, I’m pretty sure I’ve made it clear that I have precipitously high standards for them. As some have indicated, OCs will invariably make up the bulk of the world’s population. As such, it only makes sense that our standards for them should be even higher than champions to avoid an overabundance of half-baked characters that we force our champions to roleplay with. An OC should be a character of your own that you can take pride in, one that you have very specific goals and aims for. An OC is not an NPC. This is something that I’ve been thinking about for a while: NPCs with basic fighting skills, less fleshed out personalities, etc. should be available more or less on demand by anyone on the forum to help each other flesh out their stories. I’ll be thinking of a way to formalize this, but let me know if you have any particular ideas.
All that said, I understand that we’ve had some issues with attitude mismatch and progress before. Geo’s advice can be a bit rough around the edges, but he usually has a strong idea of where the lines can be bent or broken. Personally, I’ve always had the attitude that absolutely anything is possible so long as you can give an satisfactorily realistic explanation. I'll have to try kicking these guys again to make sure they're staying timely with their work, and if not, find some new ones. I understand that it's hardly fair to have your character held up just because they're not getting around to it.
Thank you to everyone who has participated in this discussion so far. I'm very interested in hearing what everyone thinks, and will continue to read through all of the feedback that appears here (as with the rest of the forum) and respond as necessary.
Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to reply to this thread. I understand that motivation is seriously lacking for many people at the moment but I appreciate every member who is making the effort to get Maelstrom up and running again. I'm going to sum up the thoughts that have been posted we'll move forward from there. I've excluded Anivia's but I strongly recommend you read through it. I'll post my personal thoughts below the list.
Champions/Applications:
- Decreasing the amount needed to write on the application - Quicker response times - Implement a new system for applications such as asking for a third-person perspective - Inactivity needs to be dealt with in a different manner
My thoughts: This has always been murky ground for me. I've been a part of different systems in my countless years of forum roleplay. I was an admin on Runebook who utilized the 250 word application which many people seemed to get on board with. I was the first person who had to fill out an application for the official forums (as Diana) and on Maelstrom (as Quinn). On one hand, applications are very good for exploring your character. But I also know what it feels like to be dissuaded because there's just so much.
I agree with Anivia on this point to some extent. I want Maelstrom to have quality work and the application process was designed to help us find the roleplayers who are dedicated enough to finish it. However, I must admit that even with my interest in some of the available Champions, I've simply not gone for it because there's, again, quite a lot to write. But I don't want to tone down the application into just "250 words" or "one or two questions".
Anivia and I have discussed this point before and there will be changes made to the application. It seems as if this is one of the main factors that kind of make new members go ehhh nah. I think it would be prudent if we created a 'prototype' application, so to speak, and ask for opinion on it. For one, the questions will certainly be limited to perhaps three, or it will be a sort of freestyle writing wherein an applicant may explore their Champion in their own way.
Another new feature is the interview process. We may revisit this idea.
OC:
- Strict guidelines - Reviewers have different standards - Suggestion to divide work (weapons, mages, etc.) - Help OCs find other characters to interact with - Allow room for more fantasy in OC applications (compare Champions to realistic)
My thoughts: I don't have much to say on this. I think that the guidelines of the OCs is actually pretty fair considering the quality we expect. However, I do understand that there are many characters who have been worked on for months without an end in sight. I don't believe that this is the council's fault.
I do agree that some OCs have difficulty in finding people to interact with but I don't believe it is the staff's obligation to help a character who cannot find something to do. That was the reason for adding a "goal" because if people are going to make an anti-social dick who steals money and kills baby animals, that's sort of on them. People need to explore the possible interactions they could have first in my opinion.
Continuity:
- People should be free to be creative but within reason. - No death skipping
My thoughts: This is one of the points I've really been against. While I understand that there are some aspects that you simply cannot retcon, it really makes it difficult for some people to get on board with their creativity. I agree that deaths should not be reversed but neither should people be forced into a box they want no part of.
For example (and I've used this one quite a lot) if I, as Quinn, were to kill off Valor in a roleplay situation where it was logical and necessary (such as if Quinn's life was in danger and Valor sacrificed himself for her R.I.P), then I dropped her... where would that leave the roleplayer? They could retcon it, but what if it was a part of something bigger, perhaps a sacrifice that was essential to the plot?
Some people just don't want to roleplay a one armed assassin.
I think that the easiest solution here would be to discuss this with the roleplayer as an individual. It will depend on the Champion and the severity of reversal and its effect on the plot as to whether or not we allow them to go through with retconning. Of course it's not the best solution but I think it will be a good start.
Plot:
- No real direction which leads to stagnation. - Needs more big, site wide events. - Felt railroaded - Roleplayers felt estranged from the 'general' plot of where Maelstrom was headed. - War between city states is desirable as an interesting plot (?) - Site wide/pre-made antagonists would help make things more interesting = make them stronger than the average OC so they'll be able to make a bigger impact. = threatening but not completely overpowered.
My thoughts: I agree with most of the points people have made and have also had a discussion about it in the Maelstrom Skype Chat. There was a lot of interest in members filling villain roles and I believe that it may be good for us to create 'canon' villains as well as allowing people to create their own (within reason).
Plots is always dangerous ground. We want members to be able to explore their own stories (to avoid the Swain situation, though I agree with Anivia in that it only felt like Swain was doing everything because she was one of the only ones who actually moved forward with what she wanted). But there will most definitely be site-wide events and maybe more dungeon crawls IF we can get the people who are motivated enough to go through with it (read Anivia's post for more because I basically agree with everything he said on this).
OVERALL
I know this sounds crazy, but I would really like to be a little more transparent with the members. I know that the popular opinion of Maelstrom is that we are an elitist board and that the gap between members and staff is really large. I'd like to communicate more of Maelstrom's goals to members so that I know we're all on the same page.
I think we will also flirt with the idea of asking more members who are dedicated to the site to come on board and help administrate Maelstrom to provide a fresh perspective and to assist in our duties.
Again, all opinions are wanted and discussion is highly encouraged.
I'll say that community discussion is one of the centerpoints of getting things done and understood by a wide variety of people over on the Official Forums. We don't have mods over there, and what protocol we ask people to follow has been discussed by the community to try and get it as people-friendly as possible without stepping on toes. Almost everything came about because of a need, and people stood up and took time out of their day to do something about those needs, myself included.
Transparency and community discussion, I think, are possibly some of the BIGGEST things that could help this community. When things are discussed openly, it makes people feel involved. Honestly, a Skype chat moves too quickly to follow most times, can be annoying and overloaded for people with 1000+ messages, and everyone may want to speak at once, stalling communication. Something like this is FAR more effective at addressing issues that are present in things, because a person can read it at their own pace, and really see and participate in whatever is being presented for discussion.
As far as applications go, for both Champions AND OC's, many people have made it known that the biggest turn off in this community is just how stringent the guidelines are. It may not be the intention, but the strict guidelines DO give off a sense of superiority and elitism. Of course the community doesn't want poor roleplayers, Mary Sues, or lack-luster performances from important figures, but at this point, the system needs some refining, certainly.
The Official Forums continue to flourish years after being created because we don't have moderation, and work through our disagreements for the most part. If people act in a way that is contrary to the community rules or guidelines, or if they behave in a way that is "below average", they will be confronted about these things in one way or another, often by various people. It is not at all a perfect system. Not by any means. But it does have its advantages.
For one, it allows anyone to get involved to some degree.
This board actually has moderators that can moderate. It has ways to enforce guidelines or work toward positive change. I've had my share of disputes involving members of this community in regard to my own actions, or the actions of others, and I will willingly admit that. But at the very least that means you guys can do your job, where on the OF, we have to work together to solve issues that are present. The community can unite against problems to get them solved.
Transparency, then, in my opinion, is not only a good idea, but a necessity at this point. Talking with the community about anything and everything, polling for ideas, plots, direction, guidelines, whatever, allowing for feedback from people, and getting them involved and excited is the way to keep a community running. I've seen my share of communities die off, and this one is circling the drain, which makes me very sad because of the possibilities present here.
Lack of posting kills interest too, and compounds the sense that "It doesn't matter what we do, nothing will come of it anyway." I've been waiting for over two weeks for Yasuo to reply to the RP we were having, and it was shaping up to be very interesting, and important for Riven's development. This is not the first time my advancement has been stalled due to inactive partners, or people losing interest for any variety of reasons.
My personal plots involve Riven meeting with champions like Poppy, Heimerdinger, Jayce, Taric, Katarina, Talon, Cassiopeia, and anyone else INCLUDING POSSIBLE OCs that could help her get the armor I drafted for her, and then help her slowly dismantle Noxus from the inside, even going so far as to start a Noxian Civil War if it came to it.
But, I can't do that if people aren't interested or don't post.
I can't do that if God-Swain and El-Bee have Noxus locked up so tight that it is all but impossible to get anything done. This ties in with what I said earlier about the bad guys feeling overpoweringly strong, where it seems almost nothing can crack the "plot-armor". It's a real turn off to interaction. Ironic coming from me and my perceived powerlevel in this community due in part to a lack of explanation on my part, but I still feel the point is valid. It's fine for bad guys to feel powerful. It creates tension, awe, excitement, and plenty of oh-shit moments when things start to go down. But they should never be so powerful that the good guys are left without realistic options to combat them, even if small, or written into the personality.
I'm running a D&D campaign with an uber-powerful summoner as the current big bad. He's so powerful he could literally wipe out the entire party by flexing his strength if he wanted to, but that wouldn't create drama or plot. Instead, he lets them live because he finds their attempts to stop him amusing, and because he's got more important things to do than mess with a few ragtag heroes. He makes minions fight them, which challenge the party but aren't unbeatable, just tough. But, if someone always loses or is told "No" enough times, they stop trying because it isn't fun anymore. I think that's really hurt things in some ways, both in the plot and RPing department here, and in regards to Champion claiming or OCs being accepted.
Post by The Grand Duelist on Jun 4, 2014 23:28:43 GMT -5
Hi, I apologize in advance if this post begins to ramble. But here are my thoughts! I hope they help.
Applications
One of the appeals of Maelstrom for me was, in fact, the stringent application process. It made the responsibility of being able to roleplay as a champion very real. I think its reasonable to tone down the applications, however, because they can feel very overwhelming for interested individuals. As someone who takes writing and plotting very seriously, I struggled a lot when I applied for Syndra and Fiora because there was so much to write. That being said, I don't want the application to be a short drivel.
Interest Stagnation
This is a very real problem; unfortunately, I am quite stumped as to how to address it. I feel that there aren't enough newcomers joining and that the current members are progressing the stories very sluggishly (myself included!). People just can't scrounge up enough motivation because it feels as if none of the roleplays will ever proceed because the replies do not come quickly enough. I don't know any way to remedy this, to be frank.
Plot/Continuity
Another of the biggest appeals of Maelstrom for me was the idea that our stories would stick. I agree with Ashe that stories should only be retconned if every involved individual is fully aware of the consequences.
People all have their own developed stories for certain champions and characters in their mind. I know I have tons about Fiora, LeBlanc, Karma, Syndra, Talon, Zed, etc. Personally, I'm worried that my ideas would be too "far out" for the community (read: Fiora being married off, Syndra dying, etc.) and I refrained from developing these storylines because I do not want to cut off all the possibilities for development for these characters that other people wanted to explore.
General
One of the things that may be dissuading newcomers is browsing through the forums. I joined Maelstrom officially after warily following (read: stalking) it over the course of half a month. There were many subforums and many threads within those subforums. I think it would be extremely helpful if there were one ultimate thread for newbies to browse through, with clear and concise directions/links helping them get familiar with Maelstrom. (I wholeheartedly volunteer for this, if this does go through.)
--
This has probably been rambling and mostly said already, and I apologize. I'll most likely have another post up as this thread progresses. Once again, I'm sorry if I've been very wishy-washy with my opinion on the topics covered.
Post by The Arrow of Retribution on Jun 5, 2014 2:50:15 GMT -5
Guess it's time for my few cents. I believe that character retcons should be implimented if the case is pretty extreme. Taking Varus for example, I had to take him after the previous rper did something that really tied my hands in terms of what I can do with him without sever consequences. There are a few other champions on here that are in even worse positions due to past actions imo. I feel it would be very unfair to have to make new people be forced to take those up.
As for the plot, I feel things have been flung off course. From the beginning, this had been Swain's site and at times, it felt like Swain's story, with everyone else just being reactionary to it. Yes, I know she put unimaginable time and effort into here and it is a shame that she has left, but this is the opportunity for others to express themselves, but as we can all see, that hasn't happened. So I feel maybe a bit of fat trimming plot wise might help.
I do agree that apps should be shortened a little. I remember dreading writing the Varus one, just due to the length of it. Perhaps 1 out of 3 situational role plays, a Judgement and the other tertiary questions.
I also think a general primer post for newcomers to read when they come would help, a kind of "what is the state of things right now" thread.
Post by The Swift Scout on Jun 5, 2014 11:15:20 GMT -5
Though I've not been as active as I would have liked to be recently, I'd still like to give my few bits on the current state of things. Though I've yet to decided if and with whom I'll continue to RP here, I'd still like to see this place succeed. Sorry if this ends up becoming a bit of a ramble...
Starting off with the applications, I unfortunately have very little experience, especially when it comes to champion ones. I started out with Teemo back when the forum was just being birthed, so I never dealt with one there.
However, I have helped write up OC applications as well as done my own. I think it's good to have an application system and standards for our original characters, that way we can prevent things like indestructible mass murderers or invincible superheroes from spawning. That being said, I didn't see much in the way of explanation/suggestions for changes that could be made to an 'improper' character sheet. If there were admins or other higher-ups contacting the roleplayers to help them fix their characters, I wasn't seeing it (my apologies if there was someone working behind the scenes to act as customer assistance). I may be alone in this, but personally I feel the 'strictness' of our OC applications would be more acceptable if we have individuals around to work with the roleplayers to help them keep as many desired aspects of their original characters as possible while still meeting the set guidelines.
Moving on to champions starting anew, this is a very... situational issue. Some champions will be just fine for new RPers as is, while others may want to have a fresh start. Like others have said, it'll depend on the severity of the champion's current history. Something to keep in mind is how the champion has affected other characters, and whether or not those characters are still around. Being a community, there is and always will be communication between characters, and as such these encounters can and usually will affect the characters in some way. It's important to make sure that changes made to a character's history won't end up washing out someone else's without making sure they know ahead of time.
Speaking of characters having affects on each other, site-wide antagonists are like a double-edged sword. They are a very nice thing to have, especially when it comes to providing characters with short- or long-term goals. Unfortunately, they can also be very tricky to work with. The roleplayer behind that character has to be willing to accept defeat at some point, and also needs to know the limits of their character. Nobody likes an antagonist that seems to always be one step ahead of the game no matter what happens to them, especially when there is little explanation for their actions (Scarlet Briar, for example). Also, there is a good chance that a major antagonist will piss off a vast majority of the good-natured characters and attract many of the bad ones. It wouldn't be good if the roleplayer behind the antagonist suddenly gets bored and tried to leave, because their character would have probably made a large impact on the world as a whole. Once the position is created, it's one that should be filled until the character goes through a major change that deems them no longer a threat (or at least an important threat).
Luckily antagonists can also be NPCs, and can be used for major plot developments if done correctly. They can also be non-living things, such as dangerous influxes of magical energies, destructive storm systems, and other natural (or unnatural) disasters of the sort (yeah, it's a little weird to think of a sudden new disease as an antagonist, but it works).
I'm going to have to agree with Ashe and Anivia, though. The whole "Swain being the super-evil villain and none of your other plots matters" is a farce to me. Back in Bandle City, we didn't even care about the rest of the world, for the most part. We had our own problems and major plot developments that we were moving through, and the only reason that most of them died out is because people started ignoring them or got bored and left (or in some cases they ran into real life problems and were unable to continue). Like Anivia said, the ideas were there, people just weren't taking the initiative to act upon them.
Recently I took the time to experiment with Tumblr RP, and in doing so I realized something: The best way to keep a person interested in roleplaying is to make sure their character has direction and a goal. It's the roleplayer's job to set these things in stone, but it's impossible for them to do it alone. Chances are their character will need some form of assistance to accomplish this goal, be it finding a mentor, earning new friends, exploring the world with a companion, or even capturing and enslaving minions. NPCs are convenient, but they quickly get boring if they are the only ones you're interacting with. The best thing we can do as a community is make sure people know what options are available to them when it comes to finding a means to their end goal, and if they don't have an end goal in mind then it wouldn't hurt to help point them in the right direction.
Post by Victus Brightblade on Jun 6, 2014 11:40:09 GMT -5
Xerath: Tag Victus, not Viktor. Victus is my main account (even if Victus is dead) and I check it more often. Especially since I lost Viktor.
Teemo: Uxie and I have presented our skype info. If people need help they only have to ask us. I do my best to be available and to help those in need, but I'm not going around and asking if someone needs it. People are choosing NOT to come to me. Frankly, it pisses me off to see that and then see people get upset that they are not getting the help they think they deserve to have handed to them on a silver platter. If you need help, you need to talk to me. I don't bite.
James:
Our main problem here lies in two major factors. The first is that different reviewers have different standards for what is acceptable, and the second is that not all reviewers are here all the time, or even here regularly, which can lead to some in-progress OCs to be a bit stagnant.
What I suggest would be subdividing the OC creation boards into different groups of OCs. Not necessarily 'good/evil' or one for each city state, but perhaps different classes or alignments. It would take a bit of extra space on the forum, but giving each distinct group an application board and an accepted board would make it easier for OC mods to check on incoming OCs and review them quicker.
What? Different standards? That is not true. Do I defer to Uxie when it comes to magic? Yeah, because I trust his judgement and like to have him around to double check me. I also trust Raz to tell me if something is actually broken or if I'm overthinking something. Both of those guys look to me when a 'fantasy' weapon appears and ask if that thing is even feasible.
As for splitting up the OC's, NO. If we had enough to warrant it, maybe. But the number of OC's in pending are few, and they are slow to reply. AS ARE THOSE IN PENDING REEVAL. There is no reason to split up the Pending OC's. Splitting them means you have more differing views and more conflicting standards.
A few comments based on what was said.
I use realism to judge OC's because its simpler to do. If I use fantasy, I have to create a MASSIVE set of rules. How large of a weapon can one equip? Why would they use a smaller one? Weight to size ratios? Its far easier to use the real sizes for realistic weapons.
Also, why do you want to play heavy armor character who lacks the build to properly manage heavy armor? I always thought of heavy armor characters to be BIG. Being a twiggy little guy in full plate seems a bit silly.
And as one last point about armor, I have pointed this out to one person and will do so again as needed. If I see an obvious weakspot in a character's armor and I'm trying to kill it, I should take it. As OC balancer, I feel obligated to point these weaknesses out to an OC during creation. For example, your belly is a nice soft target, and thus should be armored, especially if you already plan on wearing metal plates on your boobs chest. Fantasy armor is silly.
As for our magical rules, we want our characters to be committed to magical crafts or to be lackluster. A warrior requires less training because it is safer to practice. Warriors normally train with blunted weapons and most blows will not require hospitalization. Mages practicing destructive magics that should a mage err, they could unleash a fireball that kills everyone in the room.
Should we allow more in terms of magic...I'm on the fence. Champion versus OC's
I am not in charge of champion power. If I was, a lot of people might get upset that I gutted Riven's sword or Jayce's hammer or...a lot. I'm not in charge of champion creation or rules governing them. I only deal with OC's. If that upsets you that the OC's are not on the same level as Champions please remember Riot said that Champions are meant to be almost 'superhuman'. Champions are the BEST and the strongest out there. They should outclass everyone in their field. Champion Apps
Maybe a bit less, but I don't mind the length. I hit five pages on Viktor. I like putting the thought into the character.
I've only got a few words here as I can't really say much (Been away for a looong time).
This is my opinion in the OC creation: Magic.
I think Maelstrom (And generally League, Rito wtf?) needs a form of dividing magic into schools and elements. For example, let's take The Elder Scrolls which does it quite well.
TES uses quite a few schools of magic. Within it you have: Restoration (Healing), Conjuration (Summoning and conjuring of items and... Stuff? Necromancy might also go here), Destruction (And under it the elements of Shock, Frost and Flame which can be elaborated here in Maelstrom), Illusion (LeBlanc in a nutshell), Mysticism which is basically divining what's around the next corner, piece by piece, and Alteration which alters the rules of nature and the physical and biological aspects of the body.
Under those, I'd put elements like Water, Air, Fire, Earth and even go further and add additional powers such as Lightning, Ice, Wood/Nature/n'stuff, Bacon and more.
In additional to being able to cast magic, people should train in their respective school. A mage who studied years upon years on how to burn people and never invested in the school of restoration shouldn't be able to return someone's arm back on (exaggerating here). Moreover, I suggest adding element by element basis for magic. A person who is good with fire shouldn't be able to suddenly cast ice magic without learning it just as well.
Now, outside of these regular schools and elements of magic, I'd turn to other aspects. A character that is a warrior should still be able to learn enchanting providing he has other means of getting magic. Enchanting is then divided into the schools and elements and you'd be proficient in enchanting in that school and that element. Long term enchantments, some may call them permanent ones, are only for those who invested in the art for many, many years and have an exceptionally large pool of magic to infuse into the item.
Alchemy, the thing that infuses chemistry and magic can only work if the alchemist has a pool of magic to draw from and has the knowledge of chemistry, not to mention ingredients and their qualities and negatives as well as effects.
Example: Spells that affect mentality (Extreme fear, nightmares, sanity, mind control, etc) are illusion type spells. In their early years, mages attempt to cast those on rats. Some inexperienced have their spells backfire and turn into a rat and their conscious is lost in the process. Only after many, many years and with a large pool of magic, only then a person may try to mind control someone else and even then... Well you can figure.
Another example: Destruction spells (Fireballs, iceballs, lightningballs, stoneballs, kaboom spells) are studied for quite a time before practiced. A mage who tries to light a piece of pork on fire may end up combusting himself and turn crispy from the inside out. A mage who did study fire for many years and is able to conjure fire and manipulate and send it at a foe might have a harder time with ice, especially controlling it as it has differences from fire.
One last example: A restoration mage who was taught and learned how to heal tissues and mend bones may be able to perform some surgeries on the go, but he won't be able to just raise an undead skeleton from the ground. If he does try, he may end up stuck in the skeleton himself or have an angry skeleton chasing after him. Most chances is that the spell will fail completely. Also, a Necromancer should know the anatomy of the creature he's trying to raise as a part of his training.
These guidelines, edited and refined, might help people who are interested in magic to work on their character. Moreover, if you could expand on the means to learn magic in this world, it would be great.
P.S. This is just my personal opinion on those. Feel free to share yours.
Post by Generic Villain #7 on Sept 18, 2014 17:43:24 GMT -5
I like the idea of the forum wide antagonists. Though I don't believe it necessary to have one 'ultimate evil' or anything (not that Swain wasn't a great antagonist even if I didn't personally get to have any conflict revolving around that part of the plot). For example (and to build upon the Piltover and Zaun city-state tensions people have mentioned) I've been toying around with the idea of creating a drug lord/mafia type OC who runs his empire whose influence expands all throughout the city-state of Zaun and is looking to expand their territory, looking at Piltover next or something like that. Not the best or even a well thought out idea at the moment but a few guys/organizations working and operating with a lot of manpower/influence here and there would be a good idea forum wide maybe? All speculation and random ideas but yeah.
Post by The Void Walker on Oct 7, 2014 15:06:19 GMT -5
I appear to be late to the party, but right now, the biggest problem seems to be... nobody is here. We occasionally get sign-ups, but they might never post. Maybe the sign-up requirements are too high, I don't know.
Another thing I've noticed, all the old roleplayers (early 2013, early 2014) seem to have left, due to social reasons, death, alien absorption, excetera. Maybe PM them on skype. Wouldn't hurt. Probably.
Welcome to Maelstrom, Original Characters, Summoners and Champions alike. We are a divergent setting roleplay forum for the ever-popular MOBA by Riot, League of Legends. This means we are based in Riot canon, but your characters' actions can have a real, lasting impact on the world. Together, the Maelstrom community endeavors to bring the League of Legends setting and characters to life through collaborative storytelling and meaningful development. We welcome you along for the ride.
Hang out in a citystate, visit the Institute of War, explore the uncharted recesses of Runeterra. Whatever you decide, good luck, have fun and happy writing.
hello new skin yes. gonna work out some kinks but let me know what you guys think. it's not all that flashy but i didn't really like the tabs so the side bar is back. oh and the cbox has also made it's appearance. -rurin.
Maelstrom was created by Swain. Written content is copyrighted to their creators on this site. The skin is created by Wolf and mini-profile template by Kuroya of Gangnam Style. The board and thread remodel is by Kagney and has been heavily edited by Rurin. League of Legends is owned by Riot Games. Maelstrom does not claim ownership to any images used unless stated otherwise.
cbox
Chat box has been removed for the time being. Please contact me at Wyerden@gmail.com, or skype name DearCryophoenix with for any questions or concerns.
