Post by flamedancer on Jan 15, 2013 13:50:36 GMT -5
Don't know if somebody already made a thread for this, but how do the power levels work so far around here?
An explanation might be needed: Ryze is a skilled mage who thanks to the runes on his body can channel primal energies most other mages have little or no access to. As such I'm wondering mostly about two things:
a) Since we're not stuck with the regulations of the game, how much brute energy can I use and how do we use cooldowns? (Seeing how nobody would appreciate Ryze trapping an entire army in runic prisons within a second, then use spell flux to blow them all to pieces.)
b) How diverse can I let my abilities be? In game Ryze only has four abilities. Am I allowed to let him also do things like making objects and possibly himself levitate? Or should I stick to his in game abilities as closely as possible?
I purely ask this so that if I for whatever reason end up in a fight (or just roleplay in general) I don't cause a lot of unnecessary chaos because I don't know what I can and can't do.
Last Edit: Jan 15, 2013 13:51:24 GMT -5 by flamedancer
It has not yet been addressed I do not think. (Also my word is not law; that would be the stupid bird's).
I personally believe that you can do whatever you want with your character so long as it fits within her power level ranking. In terms of Katarina. I'm not going to wait a whole ten seconds before I shunpo again, but I'm also not going to chain shunpo and evade Fortune's entire bullet time. Although I'm limited to stabby stabby, twirls, and throwing things in game- I'm one of the premiere Noxian assassins, if not across Valoran. Assassins have a whole host of toys ranging from naughty things like poisons to utilization of martial skills or weapons other than knives should they have the need and access. I'm going to be faster, more accurate, and deadly than other assassins- but it doesn't mean I'm going to be able to take on an entire host of Raedsel because in the end I'm still merely a human with pointy objects. I'm not going to be dueling down a high level void creature because I'm an assassin not a mageassassinGOD of some kind.
But thats someone rather limited; so if we look at someone like Zilean- it can be far more interesting. This guy is not quite someone who has complete domination over time, but is an old and powerful sorcerer that utilizes time based powers. Surely one would not attempt to limit his strengths to simply increasing only one's movement speed (perhaps also the rate at which they react or attack?) and the utilization of time bombs? He's powerful but he's nowhere near the strength of the Summoners(cumulative) who burned a nexus to completely freeze entire army cores in place.
Veigar is a crazy yordle who, from the description of his skills, has fucking cosmic powers. Of course, this is inherently ridiculously OP because if you actually summoned a meteor (or even called forth dark matter at all) he'd one shot just about every human champion in the game. You'd probably have to bullshit your way into utilizing his magics without breaking how potentially absurd his skill set is. His theme in game is essentially that of an dark antimage (no relation to dota2). Maybe he can obliterate companies upon companies of lesser mages, but he's going to lose against an entire division.
What I'm trying to say is if it's within your lore / makes sense compared to the rest of your skillset you can do whatever- but remember to set limitations. If even a simplistic action like swinging a dagger can lead to eventual exhaustion then swinging (or attempting to) a claymore is going to tire you out even faster. Yeah, you can bind individual units all day, maybe even squads of fodder; but not an entire army.
My personal tier list/power ranking is as such
S Tier : Godlike entities/deities (Elune or Titans should you look at Wc3 lore) A Tier : Elementals/Monstrosities/Mages on the tier of High Council of Equity (Nocturne/Anivia/Brand) B Tier : Champions that play with powers beyond control or humans with severe augmentation from either mechanical or biological means such as dragon blood coursing through your veins or being infused by lunar/solar energies (Veigar/Xerath/Karthus/Diana) C Tier : Champions that have peaked their physical or mental prowess (Jarvan, Talon, Ashe, Akali, Riven) D Tier : Summoners, Notable organizations, People who have peaked their physical or mental prowess but were unfortunately blessed with less potential than those in C Tier (They weren't selected as Champions for a reason). ( Raedsel Guard, Dauntless, Strongest of Du Couteau Assassins, Shojin/Hiranan masters, OCs, etc) F Tier : fodder. See : Varus' adventure in Noxus.
Note : ofc this is, again, merely my opinion XD;
Last Edit: Jan 15, 2013 15:04:25 GMT -5 by flamedancer
Hrm, gotsa wonder about the powers of Renekton then. If he's Nasus' direct brother, the same Nasus whose arrival in the Institute had the overwhelming majority of summoners cowering in his presence and pleading for mercy, that's got to mean that he and Renekton are obviously quite formidable. They are demi-gods, after all. Just not sure where they would fit on your scale, Kat.
Post by Jonathan Xiang-Lewis on Jan 15, 2013 15:15:41 GMT -5
Essentially, as long as it fits within your champion/OC's capability and makes sense in regards to it's lore, it should be fine. As there hasn't been a ton of combat here, a tier list hasn't been exactly necessary, but should there need to be one I happen to use one that's used on the official lol RP forums:
It's a good guideline to operate with. Katarina's is more in-depth, which I feel is better in terms of defining the details. However, what should be considered is the fact that sometimes a person will change through power tiers depending on the situation. (e.g. my OC: using Kat's scale for consistency, he'd be anywhere from a D level (fighting with absolutely nothing) to almost an A level (using everything he's got), which almost never happens).
In short, as long as it makes sense and isn't immersion-breaking, you're good. This is just my view, however. :)
Post by tidaltrickster on Jan 15, 2013 15:21:28 GMT -5
Demigods would be either on par or slightly above the the Brand level. They are immensely powerful, unable to die of old age and such. Going along with the Warcraft examples that Kat also used, like Cenarius who was powerful enough to regrow forests in a few seconds, turn forests into armies of treants and so forth. Considering Nasus' soul draining powers and the Siphoning strike, his power in time could be limitless. Renekton is a bit more hard to say. He's obviously a strong and brutal fighter, but lacks the knowledge and magic that Nasus possesses. He's stronger when it comes to fighting, but Nasus' knowledge and magic brings him to par with him.
So yeah, demigods like Nasus and Renek would imo probably fit somewhere between Tier S and B.
And yay... Fizz is in C-tier. Acrobatic, a special trident, crafty and tricky. I probably gotta weave in and out of fights, avoiding stuff and taking advantage of weak points.
Edit: *ahem* Quote and Modify are too close to each other ;3
Last Edit: Jan 15, 2013 15:23:46 GMT -5 by flamedancer
Hrm, gotsa wonder about the powers of Renekton then. If he's Nasus' direct brother, the same Nasus whose arrival in the Institute had the overwhelming majority of summoners cowering in his presence and pleading for mercy, that's got to mean that he and Renekton are obviously quite formidable. They are demi-gods, after all. Just not sure where they would fit on your scale, Kat.
Either my memory is really shoddy (it is) or their lore has changed a million times (also very possible). I seem to remember that they were demigods and would be at the peak of A tier (As you said). But upon rereading they were merely a powerful race. Like yordles vs humans vs ursine - only massive and hailed as rulers and such. In that case they'd still be A, just not quite as close to S~
Demigods would be either on par or slightly above the the Brand level. They are immensely powerful, unable to die of old age and such. Going along with the Warcraft examples that Kat also used, like Cenarius who was powerful enough to regrow forests in a few seconds, turn forests into armies of treants and so forth. Considering Nasus' soul draining powers and the Siphoning strike, his power in time could be limitless. Renekton is a bit more hard to say. He's obviously a strong and brutal fighter, but lacks the knowledge and magic that Nasus possesses. He's stronger when it comes to fighting, but Nasus' knowledge and magic brings him to par with him.
So yeah, demigods like Nasus and Renek would imo probably fit somewhere between Tier S and B.
And yay... Fizz is in C-tier. Acrobatic, a special trident, crafty and tricky. I probably gotta weave in and out of fights, avoiding stuff and taking advantage of weak points.
Edit: *ahem* Quote and Modify are too close to each other ;3
Basically this, haha
Last Edit: Jan 15, 2013 15:27:02 GMT -5 by flamedancer
That's kind of what I was thinking with Renekton, yeah. Could afford to wade headlong into a fight with small armies and have a merry old time amidst the carnage and bloodshed, but not of the sort that could single-handedly bring about the end of the world. The sentence in the lore that really got me thinking about their power was how Nasus was the only one amongst the entire guardian race that could possibly defeat Renekton, kinda hinting that those two were the pinnacle of their world's already master race.
Essentially, as long as it fits within your champion/OC's capability and makes sense in regards to it's lore, it should be fine. As there hasn't been a ton of combat here, a tier list hasn't been exactly necessary, but should there need to be one I happen to use one that's used on the official lol RP forums:
It's a good guideline to operate with. Katarina's is more in-depth, which I feel is better in terms of defining the details. However, what should be considered is the fact that sometimes a person will change through power tiers depending on the situation. (e.g. my OC: using Kat's scale for consistency, he'd be anywhere from a D level (fighting with absolutely nothing) to almost an A level (using everything he's got), which almost never happens).
In short, as long as it makes sense and isn't immersion-breaking, you're good. This is just my view, however. :)
I really like most of what he wrote, especially with the notes about OCs, balance, and power- agreeing with concepts as how the tiers, although separating, doesn't mean a lower tier can't take a higher tier.
However, I was just skimming the listed scale (his ordering of tiers threw me off for a moment). I don't particularly agree with some of it.
I'm not particularly seeing the difference between Tryndamere and Garen. Nor why Darius graces the fourth tier. I also don't like that Riven ranks above her peers. She's an aging woman with an enchanted sword. He listed that artifact level weapons and equipment or endless training puts them in this tier, but I don't particularly see why. A black stone rune sword forged and enchanted with Noxian sorcery that the same girl literally managed to shatter doesn't sound like something that would put her with on the same level as Nocturne. Irelia, on the other hand, truly has a unique artifact weapon. I think it's a bit strange that a clause like that would be added for merely two people.
Syndra sounds incredibly strong, but I don't really agree with putting her in the same category as Kayle or Renekton. She's a girl that has huge potential, but has yet to develop it. (Fits in with the idea that rankings can change over the length of an rp(Is def strong enough to be accepted as a Champion, though!))
In regards to shifting tiers (temporary shifts, rather than syndra or annie style growth) I can kind of see that considering Nasus' fury of the sands or whatever empowered avatar states are (Which sounds absolutely awesome, might I add). I also don't really agree at the same time because (although this is very much a slippery slope kind of thing) what about Swain? Does demonicbirdform also lift his tiers? Khazi's evolutions (Does that count?)? Does it mean we should lower base Nasus to B and raise his final form to high A? Is base Irelia low C but low B with Hiten active? It seems much more convenient just to put them at the height of their power for sake of comparison ._.
Last Edit: Jan 15, 2013 15:52:05 GMT -5 by flamedancer
That's kind of what I was thinking with Renekton, yeah. Could afford to wade headlong into a fight with small armies and have a merry old time amidst the carnage and bloodshed, but not of the sort that could single-handedly bring about the end of the world. The sentence in the lore that really got me thinking about their power was how Nasus was the only one amongst the entire guardian race that could possibly defeat Renekton, kinda hinting that those two were the pinnacle of their world's already master race.
It's an interesting topic, champion 'balance'.
I know, right? It's one of my favourites although it's gone largely unexplored in my mind >w<
I completely agree with what you said though. That's how I'd picture raid boss Renekton as well XD Just keep calm and raise that Musou bar!
Last Edit: Jan 15, 2013 15:50:03 GMT -5 by flamedancer
Also: Some summoners are powerful as some champions (Lee sin was trained as a summoner after all)
Veigar creates black hole.
Fuck you Void.
I shit on this planet before you. Nyeehhhh *Sticks out tongue*
But yeah, I hadn't bothered listing Summoners beyond the Equity guys because they seem to be scattered everywhere from Equity to D. Summoners def super gud though! >w< Well, technically I listed them in D but that's kind of where I'd put the majority of them- assuming of course they actually are a polluted with trainees and such as I've been lead to believe. (I'm actually not that versed in summoner lore, now that I think about it).
Last Edit: Jan 15, 2013 15:58:58 GMT -5 by flamedancer
One thing that I think we should bear in mind is that on the Fields of Justice, champions can be vastly modified. I feel like any non-mage, fragile creature has been dealt a weaker hand in terms of power.
Using Skarner as an example of a misrepresentation: Skarner is much larger than his model would have you believe. Based on lore sources, he could easily be larger than Baron, head to tail. Ultimately, if you're fighting that, he could just stomp you before you can hurt him without needing to use any earthen magic.
The way see it is that some champions are just vastly underpowered compared to others. Most non-mage, human / yordle champions will have a hard time putting up much of a fight against the others. I can't see Ashe realistically leaving a dent in Malphite before he crushes her. Obviously, being a more powerful champion doesn't give you god-mode rights, but there are limits to equality. Getting into a fight with Anivia or Nasus should be avoided.
Last Edit: Jan 15, 2013 15:58:19 GMT -5 by flamedancer
You are as powerful as you want to be (within reason :D), that's the beauty of this forum, YOU mold the champion!
Well, not exactly.
I think it's sticking to the theme of your character. Ryze weilds uncontained, raw power; so he can't channel it to cast something that requires precision (like, conjuring an object). He just lets the arcane energies flow through himself, similarly to Xerath.
Below is my champion "powerlevel tier list"
Disclaimer: Please, keep in mind this is my personal opinion after roleplaying and researching these champions. While I try to remain objective when doing these things, it's possible that it's not 100% accurate.
Once a God but Riot retconned it:
Renekton, Nasus, Veigar (in that order)
Explanation: The first 2 are god-like protectors, unique to their kind, from another dimension. Renekton is more powerful than Nasus - the summoners state this during his judgment.
Veigar is not actually "powerful" - he's simply capable of summoning black holes (this is actually canon - it's how he stole the balloons during the "Mothership arc"). And as you know, black holes are pretty lethal.
A) Are living embodiments of certain elements / ideals, and thus control that element by force of will. (Nocturne, Anivia, Brand, Maokai, Shaco,)
B) Have trascended to a higher form. Xerath and Karthus (and possibly Fiddlesticks, but noone knows about him) disposed of their bodies, and are thus free of their former limitations as mortals. Because of this, they can channel magic without having to worry about corruptying themselves beyond repair
C) Similarly to the elementals, are spirits of death. Mordekaiser, Tresh, Hecarim, Yorick. Supposedly, they are eternal beings that embody the four horsemen (Conquest, Plague, War, Death respectively); and as such have great amounts of power.
D) Powerful beings from another plane - Kayle and Morgana. In a similar fashion to Nasus and Renekton; but it's not clear that they are "unique" (maybe there's a million angels like them up there!).
E) Evelynn. Despite her "nerfed" status for most of her existence, Evelynn is actually one of the, if not, the most powerful and skilfull assassin residing in Valoran; and her services come at "a very high price".
F) Cho'Gath, who is actually the textbook definition of an eldritch abomination. He'll eat anything up, and even the League is deathly afraid of him.
G) Syndra lifts entire castles into the sky and "creates" small orbs of void. Not Veigar-tier, but up there.
H) Skarner, who is a big, crystal scorpion, and the most powerful of his kind. He's almost Cho'Gath-like in power.
Super Sword and Sorcery Tier
Ahri, Ashe, Alistar, Akali, Amumu, Annie, Blitzcrank, Cassiopeia, Diana, Dr. Mundo, Elise, Galio, Gragas, Irelia, Janna, Karma, Kassadin, Kennen, Kha'Zix, Kog'Maw, LeBlanc, Lee Sin, Leona, Lulu, Lux, Malzahar, Nami, Nautilus, Nidalee, Nunu, Orianna, Rammus, Rengar, Riven, Ryze, Sejuani, Shen, Shyvanna, Singed, Sion, Sona, Soraka (post, devolution, obviously. Otherwise God-Tier), Swain, Taric, Trundle, Twisted Fate, Twitch, Udyr, Urgot, Varus, Viktor, Vladimir, Volibear, Warwick, Wukong, Zed, Zyra, Master Yi (no particular order, but Yi is possibly above the rest)
Explanation: These champions possess either:
A) Powerful magic, just not as powerful as the ones above.
B) Undettachable implants / chemicals that improve their battling capabilities
C) Secret martial styles, techniques and even metamorphoses that grant them an aditional edge during combat
D) Half-animal / voidborn bodies that grant them superior combat abilities
E) Have been (re)constructed and are thus engineerely crafted to be superior to normal people
F) Master Yi - the almost - last user of the Wuju Style. Master Yi sometimes likes to meditates on a mountain near Noxus, in the Great Barrier. Entire noxian battalions turn around once they see him, because they don't dare disturb Yi's meditation. Because they know that if they do, they'll get sliced into tiny bits. (This was actually Riot's old lore that maybe got retconned, but my point still stands. Thou shalth not fuck with Yi.)
Explanation: These champions are the best at what they do; they just don't possess magical abilities outside of the Fields of Justice. They have highly trained their bodies and/or minds to become powerful.
Crutch Tier
Caitlyn, Corki, Graves, Heimerdinger, Jayce, Miss Fortune, Vi, Ziggs
Explanation: These champions rely on a certain (several). unique contraption(s) to succeed. Without these contraptions, they are regular individuals when it comes to battle. With them, they jump up some tiers. Corki, Heimer, Jayce, Vi and Ziggs jump 2 tiers; Caitlyn, Graves and Miss Fortune jump 1 tier.
Zilean Tier
Zilean (derp)
Explanation: Lore-wise, Zilean experiences time differently - he is disjointed from the flow of time itself. He lives in the present, past, and future; he exist in all possible timelines at all possible times. Because of this, he can't alter nor be altered by anything outside of the fields.
EDIT: Went to dinner while typing this, came back, super duper ninja'd.
EDIT2: Modified the list mostly cuz Kat put me up to date on some (undocumented) Riot retconns.
Last Edit: Jan 16, 2013 6:20:55 GMT -5 by flamedancer
One thing that I think we should bear in mind is that on the Fields of Justice, champions can be vastly modified. I feel like any non-mage, fragile creature has been dealt a weaker hand in terms of power.
Using Skarner as an example of a misrepresentation: Skarner is much larger than his model would have you believe. Based on lore sources, he could easily be larger than Baron, head to tail. Ultimately, if you're fighting that, he could just stomp you before you can hurt him without needing to use any earthen magic.
The way see it is that some champions are just vastly underpowered compared to others. Most non-mage, human / yordle champions will have a hard time putting up much of a fight against the others. I can't see Ashe realistically leaving a dent in Malphite before he crushes her. Obviously, being a more powerful champion doesn't give you god-mode rights, but there are limits to equality. Getting into a fight with Anivia or Nasus should be avoided.
I definitely agree with this as well. Skarner, as a monstrosity of some kind, and is thus a tier A badass who's only counter is to be flipped on his back and attacked for massive amounts of damage. Or was that for crabs...
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), that's the beauty of this forum, YOU mold the champion!
